Saturday, December 10, 2011

Andy Salmon Kermesse Blog

Update January 17th 2012 registration is online. Finally. So a couple questions have popped up. One is the usual "what bike should I ride".. as a commenter said the key isn't the bike it's the tires. I'd use whichever bike lets you run a 25-28c tire. This isn't technical so solid road tires are recommended.

As for the combined start for the first race -- it's really hard to predict demand for a February race and the big expenses (Officials, timing and wheel support) need to be planned ahead of time. Without data we planned for minimum turnout. If the field fills up we will stagger start times.

Also, for upgrade points you need to finish races not just start them.

Updated January 1st 2012

Ok here is the info on the Andy Salmon Production's Andy Salmon Kermesse p/b Andy Salmon:

Where: Mashel-Nisqually State Park near Eatonville, WA

Categories: There will be two categories: A Mens race and a Womens race. Both races will start together and complete approx 25 miles. Prizes will be 20% of entry and go 6 deep for both the Mens and Womens' race. Start time, entry fee, Distance, prize depth, prize list and field size requirements are based on the Category each rider falls under.

WSBA & USACycling points: In order to recieve WSBA and USACycling points riders must register for one of the sub-categories available in their race. This will be done at registration. WSBA & USACycling points will be based on each rider’s finish within this sub-category relative to other riders in their sub-category.

Registration & Surcharges: Online at (has not opened yet; we will pot an update once it does) or day of at the Mashel Loop. Registration closes 20 minutes before the start of each event. The entry fee includes $3 per rider per day for USA Cycling insurance. A current year USA Cycling Rider Waiver and Release form must be signed by the participant and, if under 18, by the parent or legal guardian.

License: To enter any race for Men Cat 4 and above or Women Cat 3 and above a USAC annual license must be presented. Purchase online at (not for sale at the race). All beginners (Cat 5 Men, Cat 4 Women) may race on one-day license. No exceptions. OBRA riders of any category other than Beginner must present a valid USAC license. Foreign riders must purchase one-day license or present proof of out-of-country insurance. One-day licenses are $10, available at the race.

Numbers & Placement: WSBA numbers will be used. The officials request that both bib numbers be clearly visible placed parallel with your jersey’s side seam on the back and above the pockets. Frame number should be attached per WSBA instructions. Examples of proper placement: Rental numbers are available for a $10 fee ($5 refundable). For out-of-state riders a $5 number refundable deposit will be assessed.

Course description: Race starts at Mashel Loop field. Races will cover 7-10 clockwise laps of the Mashel-Nisqually loop (the Mashel-Nisqually Loop is 1 mile road, 2 mile dirt). Course map & profiles can be found at

Wheel Support: Neutral wheel support will be provided. In addition to two neutral wheel pits, there will be two additional wheels in/wheels out pits on the course for a total of three wheel pits on the Mashel Loop. The organizer is not responsible for wheels or equipment left at the race.

Results: Results will be posted at registration. Results become final 15 minutes after posting. Questions concerning results should be directed to the Chief Judge at the Finish line.

Directions to Start: Parking will be at the Nisqually- Mashel State Park on the right under the power lines. From North or South on I-5 Take exit 127. Drive east on Hwy 512 for two miles, then take the Pacific Ave./Mt. Rainier exit south. Follow Pacific Ave. about five miles to where the road splits in a "Y." Follow signs for Mt. Rainier (the left branch of the fork) taking Hwy 7 south. Drive about 17 miles, passing Ohop Valley Rd. At the top of the long sweeping hill turn right onto the Mashel Prairie Road on the right side. Go about ¾ of a mile and park on the right side under the power lines

Online Flier: Here

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At Thursday, January 05, 2012 7:33:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The description states that start time depends on category. But it also states that both races (men and women) start together, which seems to imply that all riders race at the same time as opposed to separate starts for different categories. Can you clarify please? Thanks in advance.

At Friday, January 06, 2012 11:00:00 AM, Blogger P-Dog said...

Right now we have the womens and mens race scheduled to start at the same time. Men and Women will be scored seperately for the race. The main point of the verbiage is so people understand their start times once we have more Categories and they start at different times. WSBA and USACycling ranking points will be based on your placing within recognized subcategories so you'll have to register based on that. We want to make sure people signing up for Masters 35+ 1/2/3 know they are racing with and being scored for the race based on the Category their sub-cat falls under.

If we start to get near the field limit we may take one of the sub-Cats (likely the Mens 4/5) and give it it's own Category starting time.

At Friday, January 06, 2012 9:27:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For USA Cycling upgrade point, the minimum distance for Cat 2 -> Cat 1 race is 30 miles, so looks like no upgrade points available for Cat 2's? Also, is it recommended to use a cross bike for this race, or can you get away with a road bike?

At Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:30:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the previous anon: If you look at the events list at you will see that there is a second kermesse (Mashel Nisqually) being organized two weeks later (2/19) in the same location and with apparently the same route, but with different starting times and distances for men 4/5, men 1,2,3, and women. I am not part of the organization so do not know why the first one (Andy Salmon) has everyone starting together while the second one doesn't (personally I like the second one with different starting times better).
As for bike of choice: I have no personal experience with this loop but have heard others say that a road bike is okay as long as you install wider tires (25 or 28 mm). I do not know if cross tread is necessary or if just wider is sufficient. Hopefully others familiar with the dirt loop will chime in...........

At Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:35:00 AM, Blogger Brad said...

Hey Mike-

What races comprise the 2012 WA cup? The two Kermesse's, Eatonvilles, and Rhonde? Others?

At Tuesday, January 24, 2012 4:07:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


First, just want to say thanks for putting theses two kermesses on. I don't see myself getting to ride a course like the Paris-Roubaix in the near future, so for now, the Mashel Nisqually will be my chance to experience off-road road racing.

I want to ask you a question re: wheel/tire choice. I am going to assume that Eatonville got and will continue to have a lot of snow by the time the race takes place, given that it is at 700 ft and at the foot of Mt. Rainier. Is the off road path prone to being muddy, snowy or at all dicey? Even if it is hard pack in the summertime, would cross tires be advisable in a slog of rain or snow? Since 2/3 of the loop is on the path and only ~1.25 miles on road, might a mixed tread cross tires be reasonable choice for mixed conditions?

Before I unglue my cross tubulars and change out for 25mm road tubulars for road season, I was wondering whether these might be good to have for the race?

Whatever may come, I say, bring it on! I am encouraging the hard men/women of the race team I am on to show up for these two races.


At Wednesday, January 25, 2012 2:14:00 PM, Blogger P-Dog said...

I'd be very tempted to roll the file tread at Andy Salmon given the longer dirt sections.

I don't think there is likely to be snow; that area doesn't get much. If it rains the night before and is cold then the course will get sloppy down the Mur to the road.

Detente is a wild card -- we've never used the full length before. What we've used has always been a bit smoother to ride on but that was in the dry.

I'd definitely run road tires at MNK though -- that's way more road and Detente isn't supper rugged.

At Wednesday, January 25, 2012 5:24:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the response. So do I understand correctly that the Salmon Kermesse vs. Mashel Nisqually Kermesse race courses are different parts of the Mashel Nisqually trail? Detente is one part of the trail that will be used for MNK? But not the Salmon Kermesse. When I pull up the course, I get the same exact course.

Thanks for the clarification.

At Wednesday, January 25, 2012 5:30:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To clarify what I meant about "when I pull up the course," what I mean to say is, that, when I go to the race flyer for both events at, the hyperlink to gives the same footprint for the race that erroneous that it is the same exact course? Doesn't sound like they are the same course per your description.

At Wednesday, January 25, 2012 5:44:00 PM, Blogger P-Dog said...

The link on the MNK flier is wrong. The correct course is here at strava:

The section jutting out to highway 7 is Detente. It looks different on mapmyride than strava; strava is more accurate.

The difference between ASK and MNK is that we turn back onto the dirt, up Detente and then back on Detente as ASK so we effectively do it twice per lap. At MNK we go out onto Hwy 7 then onto Detente.

Hope that made sense. At ASK heading out will be a slight false flat on Detente and then the return will be slightly more narrow but slightly downhill.

At Monday, January 30, 2012 12:54:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If our team has not received/distributed the WSBA numbers yet, will I have to rent a number?


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